New Bird and New Problems--Please Help?!

[PunkToaster]

Hi--just posted an introduction in the Newcomer's forum. My family has owned a Quaker for nearly 16 years. About a year ago, a friend of ours sent a picture of a bird that had flown onto her patio and asked if we thought the bird "was from around here"? Most assuredly not, but his ancestors were from Africa. The bird's original owner was never found and our friend decided to keep Lucky. However, one night, without warning and without ever biting her before, he latched onto her finger and that was it....she just couldn't get comfortable with him again and so he was re-homed with us. The first few days went very well. We were able to bring him out of his cage onto a play perch in the family room. He showed off all his words and all his sounds (including a very realistic fire alarm with a dying battery). We began to institute some target training and initially that went well, too. But something went wrong and we need help. He will sucker punch us when we are bringing him out of the cage---lifting his foot, puffing his feathers, and then biting and hanging on until blood is flowing. It's hard to just ignore such painful bites. Then the next time--same behavior--no crazy eyes and he steps up fine and then bites when he is being placed on the play perch. He'll sit on our hands for a couple of hours, licking, nibbling, taking treats and then bite seemingly without warning without any changes in hand position or sudden movement. He was outside his cage hanging out the other day when he flew from the top of the cage and landed on my daughter's face and bit her eyelid---she was reading and talking to him as usual. Fortunately, not a through and through bite (she's a responsible near 20 year old). He HATES target training and steadfastly ignores any attempts---shutting down and running from the stick no matter how far away the stick tip is from him so we gave up on that for now. This evening my daughter was on her bed playing a video game and Lucky was sitting nicely beside her on his cage top. He glided to the floor and asked nicely to be picked up--or so my daughter thought. She picked him up without incident, he climbed up her arm keeping just out of "prevent parrot from getting on my shoulder" range and latched on to her ear; she bled for about 20 min (not overly long for an ear injury). We've all got bites, some deep enough to scar, and even my husband isn't wild about this apparently unpredictable biting and the flying to the eyelid thing hasn't been a good experience for any of us. Obviously, we are missing something---but what? One minute everything is fine and the next-bam. He hates being put back on the perch and he hates going back to his cage---these are the worst times. But, he bites when he's free to come hang out too. We've been click training for good behavior and trying to ignore the biting although it's hard to ignore the parrot latched to your eyelid. He's really a sweet parrot underneath and, of course, the only things we really know about him is that he flew in from somewhere and at some point he was left alone with a dying fire alarm battery for a long time. BTW, this avatar looks just like Lucky, 5 seconds before he sucker punches one of us. Help? Please? Thanks in advance. Kathy

[Wolf]

Yep!! Most definitely a Senegal. Does the bird have a band on it's leg? If so their may be a two digit date for the year on it that will tell how old the bird is. Depending on the age of the bird you might be dealing with puberty. They normally start puberty from 18 months to 2 years of age, however in the wild they may not start breeding until as late as five years, so anything in between and it could still be related to puberty.
There are many other factors that could be the causative here. The easiest to fix is that you are doing something that the bird doesn't want done to him. Harder to fix is hormones, just like in puberty. The fix isn't that hard, but it does take time. Things that can cause hormonal biting are a human light schedule and the fix is that the bird needs to get up and go to bed with the sun and also needs to be exposed to the predawn twilight as well as that at dusk. The particular wavelengths of light at these time regulate the birds endocrine system, which in turn affects every major system in their body.
Diet is another culprit in this cycle and the problem lies in too much fat and too much protein. This begs us to ask what you are feeding this bird and when do you feed what to him? Basically if you are free feeding seed mix or pellets then the diet is not a good one for them as it is too high in fat and protein.
Inappropriate touching can also be a factor. I f you pet the bird's back then you are sexually stimulating him, and he has no release for this. Flying can help with this, and Senegals typically need to have about four hours per day of free out of cage time as well as an hour of one on one time with you.
Senegals are somewhat territorial and don't usually like you to go messing around in their cage too much and in most cases it is easier to open the door and let them come out on their own before asking them to step up. Related to this is that they are jealous of their human and do not want anyone to touch their human and generally don't care for any other person.
With what you have described there are no easy answers and no short ones either. When he bites you calmly tell him " no bite" or something to that effect, and set him down nearby, but do not put him in his cage. This will work, but it does take time. I feel like Kiki, my Senegal has bitten me more times than Bayer has aspirins. Now she rarely bites me, but it took a year as she transitioned from my Lady to me as her chosen human, and she definitely required me to pay a blood price. Once they choose you and you fix the problems she wants nothing more than to stay with and on me and is very affectionate.
I have written this and have no idea as to how much you do or do not know about parrots and just wanted to cover all the bases in case you don't have a lot of experience with them.

[Pajarita]

It sound to me as if you have an overly hormonal male (aka sexually frustrated) in your hands and, with senegals, it's real bad because they are highly aggressive birds.

I don't know how you keep him because you did not give details of your husbandry but birds need to be kept at a solar schedule with full exposure to dawn and dusk (meaning absolutely no lights on before the sun is on the sky and off when it's half way down during sunset -think chickens) or they continue producing sexual hormones (long days 'activate' the production -organs grow and prepare for breeding-, short days 'shut it off' and the organs shrink and go dormant) which makes their gonads grown too much and cause them discomfort and pain as they push the other organs out of place (you mentioned your daughter playing a video game in the evening). Free-feeding high protein food (putting out a bowl of seeds or pellets in the morning and leaving it there all day long) makes things worse because rich and abundant food is only found during breeding season in nature (this is a mistake we all used to make so, if you do, don't feel bad about it). And clipping compounds it because flight is the only way birds have to dissipate hormones (sexual as well as stress) from their bloodstream (I don't know if he is clipped but you mentioned his gliding down to the floor and asking to be picked up which flighted birds never do -they just fly up and perch on you).

Male senegals can be incredibly aggressive and I know this from personal experience so, aside from the fact that messing up their endocrine system is terribly unhealthy for them (we are talking not only mood swings but also aggression, anxiety, depressed immune system, not enough sleep, etc), it's dangerous to us, humans.

[PunkToaster]

We are working on getting a sun-up to sun-down schedule (by evening I meant abt 5:30 pm which right now where we are is like 4:30 in the afternoon) set up. He is clipped because we have fans and cats and dogs and a door that opens and closes. Almost lost our Quaker when he got outside when the dogs were headed out---found him after about 45 minutes but he was flying around our house, over the roof, daughters were crying---that's why it's important for him to be able to go back to his cage when we need him to. When he was flying he whacked into a fan. He's on LeFebre pellets mixed with a foraging seed blend plus molting/conditioning blend and fresh foods (we can change it--it's what the avian vet recommended for the Quaker and that helped his feather's etc) He's on bottled water. He likes grapes & dried mango--won't train for them. Probably, because we do need to take the food out of the cage. He's not banded. We do let him come out of the cage on his own and don't try to get him to step up unless he's approaching me and acting nice AND now I only put my finger up for him if his head is up---if it's down he's getting ready for the fake out bite. Would some sort of UV light help with the gaps in the schedule? We have UV insulated windows, too, which probably isn't helping things. And, thanks for the back tip--won't pet him there anymore. Didn't have this problem with the Quaker. He has a foraging toy and I just had a "duh" moment. He'll use that better if we remove the food from the cage (need a smack the forehead smiley here)! Will see if we can set up a safe flying environment--but he flew at my daughter's head when he latched onto her eyelid (he had been flying for a couple of weeks--kept putting off the vet visit). After the eyelid we took him into the vet to avoid loss of human eyeballs. That event terrified her and, frankly, all of us. I'm thankful for the advice and open to trying anything and everything we can! More thoughts? Hints? Detailed instructions? Kathy

[Wolf]

There is so many things at times it is hard to know where to begin, so lets begin with lighting. I don't think that the UV shielded windows are interfering any as regular window glass blocks the UV-B light that he needs already. I don't know where you live but here it is still warm enough that my windows are open the majority of the time as I don't use air conditioners, but I do have ceiling fans that I have to rotate from one room to the next so as to not have a bird flying into a fan that is running. I am sure that full spectrum lights would prove to be a benefit for your birds, but you would be better advised to get the specifics of which one to get from Pajarita as she knows much more about them than I do.
I don't know when you are feeding what to your birds, I understand the what you are feeding, but the when is just as important. But from what I am hearing from you, I am pretty certain that they are getting too much fat and protein in their diet. It is something that you can get away with for a very long time but eventually will cause injury to their livers. Too much protein also increases aggression in parrots. Actually I just opened a second window so that I could refer back to your posting as I go along and from what I am reading you are free feeding both the pellets and the seed mix, which is not a good thing. Really since they are both formulated to be a complete food all by themselves you don't actually need both of these products. So lets go into their diet a bit deeper. Perhaps you could consider feeding them a mixture of whole grains, fresh fruits and fresh vegetables, brown rice, fully cooked beans, and pasta for breakfast, and giving enough fresh vegetables and fruit for them to nibble on throughout the day. and then feed them each about a quarter cup of either the pellets or the seed mix for their dinner and remove any leftovers after they go to sleep. The reason for this particular way is that the birds will be at their hungriest in the morning when they wake up and will do better at eating their veggies at this time, They need to eat about 30% of their diet in the form of fresh vegetables and fruits, and the high protein food at night will last them all night long.
I also have a variety of animals that occupy the same living space as myself and the birds and all of my birds can fly. I have 3 dogs one is old and wont last too much longer and two 100 plus pound puppies that are just reaching maturity, I also have 6 cats, and of course the birds which are at the present time consisting of a CAG, a Yellow Naped Amazon, a Senegal, a Celestial Parrotlet and a Dove. We all live and play together. I ,too, have ceiling fans and when parrots are out in a room the fan is off, this is to prevent injury to the birds. These birds are not clipped and safety is the first and foremost reason for this as flight is the birds primary means of escaping from danger. If they could not fly then in my house they would be like sitting ducks, free, easy food for dogs and cats alike. And this does nothing to address the dangers of being stepped on by humans. When I leave the house even for just a few minutes all birds are tucked safely away in their cages, no exceptions. In addition to safety concerns, my birds are flighted for health reasons, both physical health as well as psychological health. For a bird the only form of exercise that does them any good whatsoever is flying. It maintains their muscles and for the hens this includes the muscles that are required for safely laying eggs. Studies have shown that the flight centers in the brain of a bird is also wired into every major system from reproduction to intelligence, in simple terms to everything. Flying is also the only activity that a bird can engage in that is capable of reducing the hormones that lead to sexual frustration and aggression. So as you can see it is much better to keep your birds flighted than to clip their wings.
Does Lucky have a favorite human, one that he prefers to anyone else in the house? I ask this as Senegals generally tend towards liking one person to whom they will bond to and prefer that the other leave them alone, however wit adequate socialization they will accept the rest as flock mates and not attack them. I can see by your post that you have spent much more time in training with him than you have in socializing him, and just as in this situation it backfires on the humans who don't concentrate on socializing him and building a strong bond based on mutual trust and respect. With Senegals and other larger or more aggressive species of parrots this step is vital and cannot be overlooked. I would suggest that whoever his favorite person is set aside three 15 minute blocks of time each day for the purpose of socializing/ taming Lucky. starting with Lucky in his cage. Observe Lucky and watch for his body language as you approach his cage and when he starts to move away or shows any sign of nervousness or aggression stop and don't go any closer for this session. now just talk to him, reassure him and praise him for being good. Talk and sing to him, let him come to understand that you are not a threat to him and that you are not going to hurt him. ( I know that he is the one hurting people) When he allows you to get to his cage without nervousness or aggression then you can offer him treats as you spend time talking with him, but limit the number of treats to no more than 3 or 4 per session, at the end of the 15 minutes say goodbye and leave. After he learns to accept these treats through the cages bars without aggression then you can start on doing this with the door of the cage open and give the treats directly from your hand. When Lucky takes these treats calmly and without aggression from this his favorite human on a consistent basis the this person can step back and work on target training for one 10 to 15 minute session per day, and the next person can begin to work on socializing with him just as the favorite person did until Lucky accepts them. Continue in this manner until all the people in the house have accomplished this ,while the favorite works with the target training.
I think that this will get you to where you want and need to be with Lucky and along with paying attention to his body language will enable all of you to avoid most of these bites until they stop altogether.

[PunkToaster]

Thanks so much; we'll work on switching their diet up too. We had the best day ever with Lucky and the Quaker (Kiwi). Spent several hours with the birds both individually and together. No one was bitten (at least not hard--no blood today). He went to everyone; stepped up, and STEPPED down to the perch AND went into his cage without difficulty this evening (these have been the riskiest maneuvers). He clearly wants to mate with Kiwi, who is having none of it. But he wasn't aggressive at all today. We will work on all the things you've suggested. I really appreciate the advice and I'm sure we'll have more questions! Thank you again.

[Wolf]

Please be careful with these two birds and when you have them out together as to be honest the Senegal is much more likely to kill the Quaker than to mate with her.
Kiwi, Quaker, is a much more friendly bird than Senegals are and they have a semi communal lifestyle especially in regards to their mating and rearing of their young and are as a general rule much more docile.
Lucky, Senegal, is an aggressive bird and as a general rule does not readily accept other birds regardless of species. They, generally will not accept even another Senegal, even of the opposite sex. Companion birds are imprinted on humans and due to this you are able to interact with this bird, but Lucky will for this same reason view all other birds as rivals. They have been known to attack and kill bird that are twice their size.

[Pajarita]

OK. As usual, good advice on Wolf's part so only a couple of comments. First of all, not a quarter cup of seed but about two level tablespoons (quarter cup is for a bird the size of a gray only not for amazons because they require less protein). Second, no conditioning supplements, these are designed to bring birds into breeding condition (and that's the worst thing you want right now)and we are in molt right now so just some extra sesame seed mixed in with their regular seed mix will do.

I don't know if you are aware of this but, just in case you are not, I am going to mention it: solar schedule means exposure to dawn and dusk so lights need to be off in the morning until the sun is in the sky and off when the sun is halfway down to the horizon (these is because it's the change in light spectrum -different wavelengths- during twilight that signals their endocrine system).

I doubt the quaker will have any trouble defending herself from him, quakers are also quite aggressive on their own right and females are dominant in this species so they are more aggressive than males but I would still keep my eye on him, just in case (he is clearly sexually frustrated).

Ceiling fans, open doors, dogs, etc nonwithstanding, flight is essential to a bird and add to all the reasons that Wolf gave you that their respiratory system atrophies without it (the posterior set of airsacs cannot be bellowed completely without it) and that the lack of it causes them chronic anxiety (they are prey animals and flight is the ONLIEST predator avoidance mechanism nature gave them).

Personally, I think that if you greatly reduce the protein in his diet (almost all your birds eat is protein -I know the avian vet recommended it but avian vets do not study avian nutrition at all to become avian vets), put him at a solar schedule, allow his primaries to grow so he can fly, give him a strict schedule of routines (activities that always follow one another at the same time every single day like: uncover cage when sky begins to get light, turn on the lights when sun in sky -more on light below-, serve breakfast, let out for interacting, training session, put back in cage for noon rest, let out for interacting and training session, turn off light, back to cage for high protein dinner, sleep) with lots of out-of-cage time, he will no longer attack anybody. I've taken in many aggressive birds (wild-caught as either juveniles or adults and used as breeders all their lives included) and all of them stopped attacking once their endocrine system went back on track with the seasons and allowed to follow their natural bio-rhythms. Parrots are not naturally aggressive and there is always a reason why they attack so eliminate the reason and the attack will stop.