So confused... Help, please?

[Jedders]

So... My cockatiel, Lani bonded with me very quickly. He's my little love and had never been aggressive toward me. After we bonded a bit (over the past 6 months) I decided to get another. He needed a cage mate. So I came home with Snowflake. He's a little sweetpea. Snowflake hasn't been with me long, about a month... coming home with Snowflake has created problems for Lani and me, though.

I kept Snowflake in quarantine for a while and endured the screaming back and forth from the birds. finally when it came time ti introduce Lani to Snowflake, Lani instantly LOVES Snowflake and becomes very aggressive with me. The first time Lani EVER bit me was when I separated the birds to their own cages for the night... Now, whenever Lani is near another bird he's very aggressive toward me, but when we are alone he's as loving as could be.

Do I just isolate him and allow him to be a solitary bird or is there a way around this?

[Wolf]

It sounds to me like you have more going on with your birds than you currently realize. Please understand that I don't have cockatiels myself but there are many things that are going to be very similar between cockatiels and other species of parrots. I also don't have any cockatoos, which would be their closest cousins in the bird world. Still they are parrots and many of the behaviors will be similar as will the causes of them. We will just have to count on forum members with cockatiels to either fill in any blanks or correct any thing that I might be a bit off about.
It is quite normal for there to be a change in your relationship with your bird when you bring in another bird, especially when it is intended to be a companion and/ or a mate. In this instance it appears that you selected a mate for him and he accepted her as such. While this will change the nature of your bond with Lani, it should not destroy it. I don't know how long you have had either bird, as you did not provide this information. But based on your posting, I am guessing that you have had Snowflake for about a month or perhaps slightly longer. Feel free to correct me on any mistakes that I make. You also did not mention anything concerning the ages of these two birds, so again I am guessing that at this time Snowflake is still a juvenile, while Lani is now an adult.
If I am correct in this then they probably should be in separate cages for a while longer although I would place the two cages next to each other but still at least a couple of inches apart. If they were both over a year of age then I would say go ahead and keep them together in the same cage providing that it is large enough for them to not be crowded.
Now, despite there being a change in your bond with Lani, I would not expect him to be so aggressive towards you without there being other influences at work here, especially when you consider how gentle of a species a cockatiel is.
What can you do to resolve the current situation? Work with Lani separately from Snowflake since he is fine with you when he is not with her. Work on making your bond with him stronger through time spent together in training and in just socializing with him. And since she is still new you will need to work with her to gain her trust just as you had to do with Lani when you first brought him home. Above all else be gentle, consistent and patient.
From that point it is going to depend on the answers to some questions. Because of the level of aggression I suspect that you are not keeping your birds on a solar light schedule and that you may be providing the wrong diet to them and that these are causing Lani to be excessively aggressive. With this in mind and looking for the means to put things on the right track and keep them there, Could you tell me about their daily schedule? Please include as much detail as possible and begin with what time do they get up each morning, and on to when do they get breakfast and what do they get for breakfast as well as what they have to eat during the day to last until their dinner. What do they do after breakfast, how much out of cage time do they have each day, how is that time used, is part of it spent in training and if so how much is training and how long are the training sessions, how much of the time is personal non training interaction. When and what do they get for dinner and what time do they go to bed? Do you cover their cages at night? Where is their cages located? Tell us about their lighting, do you use artificial lights and if so what kind of lights do you use for them?
The reason for these questions are because these are the things that trigger hormonal and /or aggressive behaviors in birds, and we really need to figure out what is causing Lani to act so aggressively so that we can help him to feel and do better.

[Jedders]

I bought Lani in early September and we got Snowflake a little over a month ago, they were both pretty young when I got them, not adults. Very little has changed in schedules since I got Lani or Snowflake, but here it is.

He lives in my bedroom, a few feet apart from Snowflake. We get up between 7 and 9 am, I feed him regular store bought cockatiel seed in the morning and I leave his cage open before I leave to start working. (I'm a daycare provider, so I keep the kids out of my room by keeping the door shut, they hardly know there's a room there, anymore.) When the kids go home around 2-3 pm I get Lani and bring him to a smaller travel cage I can move around the house as I clean, since the man I bought Lani from clipped his wings, the feathers are still growing back and he can't fly to me. Usually after cleaning I make myself a snack of fruits or broccoli and Lani eats my snack with me. I spend most of my afternoon until dinner studying for my online college courses and Lani moves freely between his cage and me. I almost always have a hand free to give him love and tickle his neck. At dinner time I put Lani in his big cage, with the door open while I'm in the kitchen and when dinner is done I look up whether any of it is good for Cockatiels or not so I can feed him some. Occasionally I'll cut up some more veggies and feed that to his as a desert but he doesn't seem to like veggies very much. And before Snowflake came, I was training him to come to me with a clicker and milletseed as a treat... he was doing really well- although it was my first time attempting to trick train a bird- and we had to stop because of his aggressive behavior.

I know bonds change when introducing a new bird into the house, I don't mind that, I want them to be happy. The reason I'm asking for help isn't because it's a minor issue, Whenever Lani is within a foot of Snowflake, if I try to touch either of them, I get bit. He doesn't EVER want to be separated from Snow... It's not just biting, he hisses and rushes at my hand. If I try to pet Snowflake around Lani, Lani runs up to bite me. But when Lani's in his cage or anywhere away from Snowflake, he can't wait to get on my hand and ask for tickles.

I tested this as well, about a week ago... I had to leave home for a few days. I had my sister take care of Snowflake while I took Lani in his travel cage to the house I was staying at. He was the same sweet, loving little bird I had before Snowflake... And when we came home, he was aggressive to me if he was near Snow... It's definitely Snowflake...

[Wolf]

I will come back with more information for you later on this morning as I an going to go to sleep for a few hours before getting up to take care of my birds but thought I would see if you had replied to my first answer. Right now they are both juvenile birds and that is good. Lani's aggression at the moment is simply jealousy. He thinks of you as his and wants all of your attention for himself and so he attacks you whenever you try to give Snowflake any attention. To control this just close him in his cage when you work with snowflake and close her in her cage while you work with Lani. You need to improve your husbandry and their diet and when I come back I will give you some recommendations on how you can accomplish this.

[Wolf]

If Lani likes to ride around on your shoulder then I don't see why you would carry him around in the house in a travel carrier, while cleaning your house as long as you are not running a vacuum cleaner or using cleaning agents that would be harmful as he would be much happier riding around hanging on to you. Here is a link for toxic and non toxic foods, plants woods and household products viewtopic.php?f=8&t=12521 So far this is the best list of its kind that I have found and the list begins on the second page of the topic.
Although cockatiel are partial ground foragers and can eat more seeds than some other parrots, seeds do not make for a complete or healthy diet for them as they need to eat a lot of green leafy vegetables as well as many other types of vegetables. They may even like a little bit of fruit as well. The best way to get any parrot to try new foods is for you to fix them some as well as some for yourself and sit down and eat it in front of them until they start begging you for some of it. When they start to beg act as if you won't give them any and are going to keep it all to yourself while making a big deal about how good it is. This will serve to make them want it even more and after a couple more minutes of them begging for it offer them a small piece of it. If you do this enough times they will want anything that they see you eating and they will start eating their veggies. Eating is a social as well as a bonding activity for parrots and they love to share your food with you.
Lighting: parrot are photoperiodic in nature and this means that the amount of light that they receive is one of the triggers for starting and stopping the breeding cycle. They are able to measure the length of the days so that they start their breeding cycles at the appropriate time. But artificial lighting can upset this routine quickly and if this happens then light is the only way to fix it ,but it takes much longer to fix than it takes to prevent. Because of this they need to be exposed to the twilight periods of dawn and dusk as it is the specific wavelengths of the suns light at these times of the day that set or reset their internal biological clock so that they can measure the length of the days accurately and therefore only produce breeding hormone when they should. If this biological clock is prevented from doing its job by keeping the bird on a human light schedule and the prolonged use of the wrong lighting they will become increasingly hormonal and aggressive throughout the entire year. The aggression is also only partly caused by the hormones themselves but is also increased due to their constantly over enlarged gonads which over time becomes increasingly painful.
Parrots of all types need several hours of time out of their cages to roam about and explore their environment as well as to fly about for exercise and for social interaction by just hanging out with us. They need this time on a daily basis. Most of them need about four hours of this time of which we can use a portion of for training in short sessions of 10 to 15 minutes. Part of this time also needs to be spent in physical contact with the bird for cuddleing and head scratches and so on. Due to the fact that they do better with keeping to routines it is better to have a little less time out of the cage on a daily basis than to have longer periods of time that is not kept up daily.
You will have to show Lani that your spending time with Snowflake is not going to stop you from spending as much or nearly as much time with him. That you love him just as much as ever and continue to play with him and scratch him as much and hang out with him as much and you have to do this in such a manner that you don't neglect doing the same with Snowflake. You are going to have to overcome his jealousy and then slowly introduce them to each other so that they can both be out of their cages at the same time. The fact that they are housed in the same room close to each other is going to help you with this process as they are driven to be highly social creatures and they need their flock so you just have to be patient for a little while so that you can get them properly introduced to each other. I don't know how difficult this is with cockatiels that are of the same sex, but if they are indeed male and female then the process of introductions will go very quickly with this species.
I hope that you find all of this helpful. I think that you should devote a little bit of time and do some research on these things for yourself as opposed to taking anybody's word for it. There is a lot of misinformation out in the parrot world and because of this I recommend that you look for unbiased scientific documentation and studies in all of these areas of parrot husbandry. I will be happy to answer any questions that you may have and I can provide links to most if not all of the sources of the information that I have given to you in my replies if you want or need them.

[Jedders]

Okay, thank you. I hope you're right,

[liz]

As the others said, your have to change food and lighting.

My idea is a little different on the aggression. I saw it first in my Love Birds. Tweetle Dee always blocked me from touching Tweetle Dumb to the point that he would back Tweetle Dumb into a corner. Tweetle Dumb never made an effort to come to me. Since I only want my babies to be happy I let it be. Then I saw Tweetle Dee feeding Tweetle Dumb. It wasn't until Tweetle Dumbs beak over grew that I realized there was something wrong. There was such a bond between these two that the stronger one was caring for the weaker one.

I see it again. Cagney protects Lacy. Lacy's feathers are in bad shape and she is missing the front does on her left foot. Lacy is healthy in every way but appearance but is handy capped. I don't know how the injury happened. These two were passed around so many times that no one knew their names. I let them be. Cagney will interact with me but I think Lacy has old fears to deal with. She will come to me when she is ready but as long as Cagney thinks Lacy is weaker he will protect her.

Don't touch Snowflake until you have rebounded with the first. This is just what I have witnessed. Others are more educated in birds than I am.

[Jedders]

sorry, I replied before realizing you had responded...

I don't keep him in the smaller cage, I leave the door open at all times so he can eat, drink and play with his toys if he decides to. He can't fly to my room where the big cage is.

I've tried getting him to eat more veggies, I haven't found any he'll eat yet. I love veggies myself and when I eat them he begs for it until he manages to jump onto my plate and try some... It's always the same, though, he tries it and instantly goes back to his cage and doesn't want anymore. If I put some in the cage he won't touch it.

The place that I work at, where Lani's smaller cage is normally placed in next to a glass sliding door where lots of sunlight can get to him. The lights go out and it's bedtime around 11pm. Oh! And it's winter, now but on warm sunny days I place Lani in his small cage outside on a fenced in deck where I can still see and hear him... Usually only for an hour, though. (And yes, I make sure he has some shade to move to if he gets hot.)

Thanks again, I hope this works... I admit I have some doubts, though.

[Wolf]

If you get up at 7 am and go to bed at 11 pm that is a 16 hour long day and that leaves a maximum of 8 hours for sleep, not quite enough sleep. You have to be very patient with birds when it comes to food. To begin with if they have seeds available all of the time then they will always eat the seeds before the veggies. This id due to the fat and protein content of the seeds. Things like that taste better to us to. The problem with that is that an all seed or almost all seed diet will over time give your bird fatty liver disease and it will die years before it should. Birds don't get a lot of fat and protein in the wild, but it is required for them to breed and food is also one of the things that trigger breeding cycles as well as fueling aggression in birds. Also parrots are not hatched knowing what they should or should not eat or drink and in fact the must be taught what food is as well as how to eat and drink. If they are not taught by mom and pop parrot that something is good to eat , they will not eat it because they don't think that it is food. You are mom and pop parrot and it is up to you to teach your bird what is food because they don't know and are counting on you to teach them. You may have to offer them say carrots in as many ways as you can think of, chopper sliced, diced pared, grated, julienned, stewed, boiled ,steamed, roasted and raw. You may have to offer them carrot for days, weeks or months before they will eat them, but the more patient and persistent you are the sooner they will eat the carrot. It is the same with every single food that they should be eating. For the majority of parrot people this is a lifelong process. I have been teaching my birds to eat a variety of healthy foods for over two years, which is when Kiki, my Senegal came to live with me. I have had several successes but they still need to eat a larger variety of veggies and fruits.
Parrots are different from any other animal that you know about when it come to light and its effects on them. For example, the sunlight shines through the glass of the window or through the window screen and shines on them just as it does on us but due to the fact that they need the sunlight to convert beta carotene into vitamin d-3 this sunlight is useless as it filters out the uv-a and uv-b wavelengths of light that is required for this conversion process to take place. Then on top of this the filtered sunlight provides poor lighting for them to see because unlike us they use the uvlight to see with, which means that they see more colors than we do and so the filtered sunlight leaves them visually impaired.
And again I must say, please do not take my word for these things, take the time to research these things for yourself. All that I can do is to share with you what I have learned and by doing so hopefully point you in the right direction. It does me no good, nor does it harm me in any manner if you believe one word that I have to share with you. But then I am not your birds and unlike me they are the ones who pay the price of your decisions regarding them. They are the reason that I am here and they are my only reason.

[Pajarita]

First of all, thank you so very much for getting Lani a mate! It was thoughtful and kind of you to do this for him, kudos to you for it!

Now, as to your problem, for what you have described (I am not there so I don't really know if your observations are accurate or objective so I can only go by what you write), Lani is not a juvenile, he is an adult male and hormonal at that. I don't know where you got Lani from or how old you were told he was in September (does he have a closed band on his leg with the year of his birth?) but, going by your description of his behavior, he has to be, at the very least, a year old, you have free-fed protein and kept him to extraordinarily long days for months so his teenage hormones are raging and, when you brought him a pretty little girl, he fell head over heels in love with her and, as any good boyfriend bird, he is protecting her from anything and anybody (in this case, you). His behavior is normal and it does not mean he doesn't like or love you, he is reacting out of pure instinct. The desire to procreate is what drives all species on earth and he is simply acting on it. He is, in fact, doing exactly what he is supposed to do so, please, don't hold it against him or try to interfere in any way because the only thing that you will achieve is his resenting you.

Cockatiels are extremely mild-mannered and even during breeding season the males behave like little gentlemen toward us, the caregivers, and, although they might prevent us from touching and reaching their females, it is, like I said, what they are programmed by nature to do.

What you need to do is allow them access to each other 24/7/365. I understand that this might not be what you would prefer but nature made it this way... in the monogamous bird world, husbands are ALWAYS with their wives and separating them is terribly stressful to them (they actually suffer) and ultimately unproductive to us because, with undomesticated animals, we can't control or change what nature hard-wired into their brains (that's part of what the domestication process does but, with he exception of English budgies, all parrot species are undomesticated and have EXACTLY the same needs as the wild ones do). We can impose our will but it won't endear us to the one we try to dominate.

In any case, the basic problem here, in my personal opinion, are hormones and, most likely, frustration on Lani's part because he had to wait for a mate and now there are obstacles preventing him from achieving his heart's desire (been with her all the time) so what you need to do is reduce protein intake, keep them at a strict solar schedule with full exposure to both dawn and dusk, a good full spectrum light (CRI 94+ and Ktemp 5000-5500) and allow them to be with each other. The situation is not going to get better immediately because we are now on our way to breeding season (winter solstice was Dec/21) but, if you persevere and are patient, he will calm down A LOT come July and your relationship will be what it once was (right now, he is consumed by his passion for her but once he stops producing sexual hormones, he will be OK).

Tiels are not good eaters of raw produce like fruits or veggies but they do love leafy greens and, at least mine, really enjoy fresh corn, peas, carrots and sweet potatoes as long as they are cooked and the carrots diced. My tiels eat, just like all my other parrots, gloop for breakfast (and a small portion of a good quality budgie seed mix for dinner) and although I do put raw produce out for them, they only eat the leafy greens or cruciferous (they do love raw broccoli), corn on the cob and pomegranate seeds - period! I only have one (and another one in the past -out of a total of maybe 60 tiels I've had under my care) that munched on a slice of apple but no other ever did and, for what I read from other people who have them, it seems that raw fruits and veggies are not usually part of their diet.