I messed up and he's biting again

[qtbirds]

I'm trying my best to get my son's parrotlet to unlearn biting me and sometimes my son. He was raised to be tame. He is tame for the most part, but he learned to bite when his breeder told me to practice laying him on his back in my hand. She teaches all of her birds how to do this when they're babies. They are normally experts at doing it by the time they go home, but my son's bird still needed work on it. She advised me to practice with him and against my better judgement I did. She said that if I waited a couple of weeks before trying to lay him down in my hand, then he really wouldn't like it then. He started biting soon after I practiced with him so I stopped. At that point he learned to bite even though I didn't pull away, let him go or screa. I waited for him to stop biting and I let him go.

Almost right after this incident he started biting while stepping up from his cage. Eventually he sometimes bit while stepping up from my son's shoulder or from other places. Usually he wouldn't bite from other places, but sometimes he would. He still stayed tame in the sense that he allowed us to pet him all over his body and he let us scratch his head and neck. He would sit on our shoulder or in our hands just fine.

I had used a perch for him to step up. After about two weeks I thought that maybe it would be time to try to get him to step on my finger. I would get him to go to the edge of his cage door by offering a treat. I would slowly approach with just one finger and then ask him to step up. At first he bit, but not hard and after a few days he stopped biting completely. I thought we made a lot of progress and that his bites were coming to and end. Tonight he started biting again and worse than before.


I don't know if I pissed him off because I tried to get him to step up with my hand while he was still in his cage. He didn't bite me because I saw that he might bite so I stopped. He came out of his cage to sit on top of it. After a few minutes I tried again. That's when he really started biting me.


I'm so frustrated and I'm in pain because I know I'm not supposed to pull away or react to biting so I didn't. My hand has been chewed up. I know he's tiny, but I have small bruises.

I was told by some people not necessarily on here, that I should grab his top beak and tell him not to bite. I never thought I would try it because it doesn't sound like it would work. I tried it tonight a couple of times because I was so frustrated with his biting. I don't think it made a difference because he still didn't want to step up, and he still bit me. He didn't seem to care either way if I grabbed his beak or not.

Whenever I asked him to step up from the edge of his cage I never chased him around with a perch or my hand. He could walk away easily, and he had been walking away for a while now. I thought we were making progress because he would walk away from me if he didn't want to step up instead of biting me. Tonight he walked and away and walked back to bite me. I don't know what to do. I don't know if he'll always hate me and eventually learn to hate all of my family.

I'm also upset because we paid a lot for him particularly because he was so tame. I didn't know that he would turn aggressive so easily because we made a couple of mistakes with him. He has been home only a month. He was hatched in July. Sometimes I think it would have been easier to get an untamed bird and start from scratch. I feel like that's what we have now anyway.

Is our case hopeless?

The biting is around 1:24.



He almost steps up here but walks away at 1:00.

[Red Moppet]

Sunshine is a very cute little bird! : )

I can empathize with your frustration and hurt. I can't help you with how to teach Sunshine not to bite, but there are lots of wonderful and experienced parrot owners on this forum who can jump in with their advice. What I can say is this:

From observing the video, it looks like you are moving in too tentatively for step-ups. Moving (not quickly, as that will scare the bird, but like you aren't afraid and know what you are doing) with confidence might help. Also, you might want to get closer to Sunshine's belly. You seem to present your finger right at the sweet spot for bites.

Also, from my experience, my bird let me do anything to him in the first couple of weeks. At first I thought it was because he was so tame (I got him from a breeder as well) but I realized that even though he was hand-tamed, he was still terrified of me and just sat in fear while I touched him. After the fear wore off, he became "nippy" and I thought I had broken him! Here he was, a sweet tame baby and I turned him into a monster! But after a week or two of this behaviour, we seemed to come to an understanding and he really started taming down. This time it wasn't in fear, but in knowing that I would always treat him with respect and gentleness. So what I'm suggesting is that the biting could be a phase where Sunshine is learning that he can tell you what he wants and what he wants you to do or not do.

Lastly, I don't know what others would say about this, but from my research, I learned that once you ask a bird to step up (making a reasonable request) you should not give it the option to step up or not, depending on it's mood. Then he'll learn that he never does have to step up and can boss you around. And while having a mutual respect is important, it is my belief that the human is the "leader" (or whatever term you want to use) and the bird should respect that and do as you ask. Lots of birds are cage-aggressive (I think parrotlets are also known for this, but correct me if I'm wrong) so it might be a cage of getting him out first, and then working on step-ups.

And where is his incentive to come out and step up? Try offering a treat to entice him to step up and that also diverts his attention to nibbling your fingers. He might associate stepping up with going on his back and he won't want to leave his trusty home for that. I might try one step up with a treat and then return him to his cage and leave him. Then, a while later, try again but try for 2x and build up that way. Then he associates stepping up with good things and not being away from home for long periods. Barbara Heidenreich's videos are good to watch for this - she makes it look so easy!

This might all be basic knowledge but I figured I'd put my two cents in. Hope it helps on some level. And I look forward to hearing what the more experienced bird owners have to say. Good luck and don't give up yet! : )

[Kathleen]

Others have come to the parrot forum with similar questions and similar problems.

I'll summarize what I think you should do and explain a few things, and I'm going to point you in the direction of some articles and other topics where it explains some of the things that you need to do. Your parrotlet cannot unlearn biting. What can change is you learning some techniques and learning to read bird body language to avoid biting by training the bird in other ways so that it won't want to bite you. You can reduce biting to almost no biting at all. But clearly you are confident and you can handle a very rare bite when it happens, so this shouldn't be much of an issue.

It's good that you seem to understand that pet birds have choices. They can step up, or they can walk away, like you said. Or, they can bite to get you to go away if they've learned that the consequence for biting is getting you to leave them alone. The techniques you should use are all based on giving the bird choices, and giving it a reason to desire to be with you and to desire to step up.

Start by reading these topics, where I explained how to condition the bird to your hand getting close to it. You need to read between the lines a little. For example, you may not have a one person bird like is talked about in the one person bird article, but you can still make use of all of the techniques and a lot of the information that I explained in that article about motivating the bird, and the "what's in it for me?" concept, etc.

http://www.theparrotforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1528
http://www.theparrotforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=3207

You should read about some basic training, which explains in detail how you should start managing your bird's food, clicker conditioning, teaching it to target (or direct it where you'd like it to go):
http://www.theparrotforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=227
http://www.theparrotforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=3387

These links explain positive reinforcement techniques to increase a desired behavior by adding some kind of consequence. They are used to condition the bird that you are nice to it and give it a reason to desire stepping on your finger. Change your own behavior and change the environment to increase the behavior that you want.

In summary, I think you should start by managing your bird's food so it's motivated to be near you (see links). Then, use that motivation for positive reinforcement training. If you can't take the bird out of the cage for now without it biting you, no problem. Start clicker conditioning the bird inside the cage (see links). Then, target train the bird (see links). Use target training to target the bird onto your hand. The bird will be so focused on target training, it will probably be less focused on biting you. This of course requires the bird to be motivated (see links). When you can get the bird out of the cage without it biting you, put it on some kind of perch. Then condition it to your hand (see link) with the technique that I explained. This requires you to reward it while it's calm and before acts out any aggression or fear of you (see links). After all of this, if done correctly, your bird should be used to your hand grabbing it and holding it (for a reward of course) and it should be target trained. You can use all of this to teach it to step up. After all of this, the bird will be motivated to come out of its cage because it should want to earn treats from you for doing behaviors and it should be conditioned that for being near your hands, it gets treats.

[Kathleen]

Sorry if this all seems overwhelming, but I think this process will help you and your son develop a better relationship with such a cute little parrot. The good thing about using the method that I described, is that clicker conditioning and target training are a method that begin with being hands off. You don't even have to touch the bird at first while it's still used to biting you and your son. Hand contact can be used after the bird is used to what the "clicker" means, and then after the bird learns what to do when it sees the target stick.

[qtbirds]

Thanks Red Moppet and Kathleen.


I did think that I had "broken" him when he first bit. He is a feisty bird and parrotlets are known for being feisty and bold. I guess he isn't really "broken", but he needs some more training. I have to back up some more and try to target train him. I was just getting him out from him cage by showing him treats and giving them to him when he came out. He doesn't seem to have a food or a toy that really motivates him yet. He likes millet and sunflowers, but he doesn't seem to want to do anything to get them even if he's hungrier than usual. I don't want to get him too hungry since he's just a baby. I'm trying sesame seeds next to see if that makes a difference.

He wants to bite me a lot today after all the biting he did last night. I'm not afraid of the biting because he usually doesn't bite hard like he did last night. Oddly, I was able to give him scritches while he sat on my finger only a few minutes after his last bite. I gave him a treat for that. I put him back in his cage and then gave him another treat.

Should I give him time to cool off by leaving him alone for a few days before starting over with him? Should anybody else try to take him out of his cage with a perch?

I'll try target training him in his cage even though he will come out of his cage when we show him a treat.

I'll read those articles and try to follow them with Sunshine and our other birds. I brought home a baby lovebird a few days ago so we'll see if he/she turns bitey. So far he's very tame and hasn't even tried to bite at all.

[Kathleen]

I wouldn't recommend giving him a few days to cool off and I wouldn't recommend having someone else take him out with a perch. This is still a fairly young bird and you haven't had him for very long. Your situation is definitely not hopeless. I think you should start right away.

First, wait to feed it so it's hungry for treats and start a training session with clicker conditioning (probably should use millet, it's very easy and very tasty to birds). You're going to teach it what the clicker means and what the target stick means. At the beginning, you don't need to take the bird out of the cage, so there's no risk of biting at the beginning when the bird is used to biting you. Just click and then reward it through the cage door or through the cage bars. Same thing with target training. Target it around inside of the cage and reward through the door or cage bars. Obviously the long term goal is to put your arm out and target the bird to go onto your arm in order to touch the stick with it's beak and get a bite of millet, and to target the bird out of the cage in this way. Read the articles I linked carefully because they explain how to go about this whole process in more detail.

Targeting allows the bird to make the choice. It can choose to go where it needs to go in order to touch the target stick, or it can ignore the target stick. You set yourself and the bird up for success by waiting until the bird is a little hungry so it's motivated to go and touch the target stick and the training process will work.

I estimate that if you read these basic training and taming articles, you could have your bird clicker conditioned in a day or two, have it target training in less than a week, and be able to target it out of the cage soon after that. Once you accomplish all of that, you can condition the bird to be able to touch it by the other method I described in the links and articles. This is so you can grab it and handle it and the bird will start to enjoy that and desire that.

He's a young bird, so he probably has a faster metabolism. He's also a small bird, so you don't want to push the hunger too far, like you said. Definitely do not starve any bird that you are training. Just a little hungry and using a treat that he will enjoy is all you should aim for.

Read the links and articles, try out the methods, and be sure to update us on your progress and ask any more questions you might have. Feel free to make a video if what you're doing if you want more visual feedback as well. Good luck with your birds and happy training.

[qtbirds]

Well, he seems to have decided to quit biting. I have been able to get him to step up on my finger from the top of his cage, my son's shoulder, his play gym area, the play gym itself, and from other places without him biting or even lunging. I still use a stick for inside his cage because I haven't had the courage to see if he would step up on my hand without biting from the inside of his cage. I usually tell him to come out of his cage, and then I tell him to step up on my finger or my arm. Sometimes he wants to step up on my arm and not my hand or finger.

I'm not really sure what I did to get him to stop. Maybe he just needed time.

Now I just need to figure out what to teach him. He can touch a target stick, but I don't know what I should try to get him to do next.