Polarn wrote:Btw I am sorry if I ever come off in a extremely strong manner about clipping and such things... I mean I know there is differences in what's normal and not and in what is expected/accepted etcetera. People does still clip birds here but... And this is a big but... They avoid talking about their birds because they know most people living with birds here strongly disagree with clipping and would lecture them. And as stated in other threads it actually may be considered (not only in public opinion but by law) after next New Year's Eve to be animal cruelty to clip a bird... And unlike forgetting to feed your horse or whatever you simply have no excuse for clipping since it is a very active choice... So no excuses and the possible risk of jail time for damaging the plumage... I hope I won't ever have to see a clipped bird Ong the law is in place (if it does get put to use, wich I sincerely hope)...
Now again I know there are big differences in norms around how to properly keep the birds and I know our cage requirements are quite outrageous really I you look world wide but then even thouse who cheat actually have bigger cages than in most places... But I know my view here is scewed by our laws and regulation hence I doesn really speak up in them topics unless I find a cage to be way to small.... But clipping is such an active choice and you actually have to spend time perhaps even money in order to abuse your feathered friend... Anyways jus wanted to let ya know I'm not a complete arse and I do not mentally punish people from other places too hard for the mutilation but I try to affect by showing there are whole societies managing flighted birds :p
So I know this is probably not at all what you meant but it
kind of sounded like you think our laws and regulations are a bit "too much" or whatever, which I really don't think is the case. I love the Swedish cage size requirements! Though I would love it even more if the majority of people actually CARED. Like, it's practically impossible to find a good and legal cage, especially in pet stores. They sell cages that's barely legal and call them "big", even "huge".
And if you were to look around on the internet for birds for sale, you'd almost never see a big enough cage.
Though, yes, I agree - the average bird cage (especially when it comes to a little larger birds) is still larger in Sweden than you'd usually see in a few other countries.
And - on topic - I had no idea it might become illegal to clip a bird's wings here in Sweden next year. That's great! I really hope the law will come through. But like you say, there aren't really THAT much clipping here, though it definitely happens.
Both my Sennies had been clipped before they got here, but both only once or twice because their previous owners realized that not clipping the bird would be way better, and I think that's often the case here, actually. People who are new to birds might clip because they think it's better, and when they've been around the bird world for a while they'll realize clipping is not only unneccesary but also pretty... Not good...
Like, Swedes are usually not that STUBBORN about animals, I think. At least from what I've experienced.
Though, of course, there'll always be those people who will sincerely believe NOT clipping is stupid and cruel and nothing can change their mind.
..And there'll also always be a lot of non-extreme pro-clippers, too, haha.
(Oh, and there'll always be a few against-clipping arseholes, who instead of arguing nicely throws shit all over people, to put it... Nicely? Haha. There's a lot of different bird people, ALL over the world. Just like with any other animal/pet.)
Oh and just for everyone's information - I don't dislike
people who clip their birds (or have small cages) either! I just somewhat dislike the fact that clipping is an option.
Like, if you clip your birds for any reason at all, you're probably still great. You just don't share my opinion. Which is fine.
(Oh and I'm sorry if it sounds like I'm bragging or anything, about Sweden - I just really love that we've got cage size requirements and a bunch of other laws/recommendations and I REALLY HOPE clipping will be illegal soon! Haha)