Sharing toys amongst your flock

[patdbunny]

I understand what you're saying about the birds not being in direct physical contact. However, you still don't have any sort of biologically secure situation that disinfecting toys between the two birds would be of much significance.

Some diseases and mode of transmission:
Polyoma - contaminated droppings, crop excretions, feather dust (air), and respiratory secretions
Psittacosis/Chlamydia - droppings, inhalation
Clostridium - ingestion, wound contamination, inhalation of spores
Newcastles - ingestion or inhalation of particles
PBFD - thought to be spread by feather dander, fecal matter and other secretions from infected birds

You'd have to have your birds in a different dedicated air supplies, bathe and change your clothes in between handling the two birds, have shoe baths or shoes dedicated for use only with each bird, etc. So, contaminated toys aren't really that big of a concern if you're not going to practice true biosecurity procedures.

Technically, buying anything from a store that has birds in it is a risk to your birds when you bring the item home, including food. Going anywhere there are birds you risk bringing home disease to your own birds on your shoes and clothes. Taking your birds outside risks disease from inhalation of disease causing agents.

I have basically five "sectors" of separation at my place so if I do have a disease outbreak, I can reasonably implement quarantine procedures. I have 5 acres. My conures are on one corner of the property, I have a second set of birds on the other end of the property, I have a third set of birds out the backdoor, I have a fourth set out in between the house and the garage, and the fifth set are the birds in the house. Should there be a disease outbreak, I can reasonably treat the area where there's disease in a quarantine situation as it's in completely separate airspace - I would need to feed and service them last, shower and change my clothes before going near the birds not in quarantine.

Despite my five sectors not being in direct contact, I do risk unknowingly transmitting diseases at this time to all sectors, prior to disease detection/outbreak, because I don't change my clothes in between servicing each sector or otherwise practicing biosecurity procedures. For the most part I'm usually not even washing my hands in between servicing each sector.

Goes back to you can't keep them in a bubble. Sorry if that was TMI.

[entrancedbymyGCC]

I completely recognize that I don't have a quarantine situation, but I think the thing is that it isn't truly an all or nothing situation. In the hypothetical situation that one of my birds has a digestive tract infection and the other doesn't, there would be more bacteria present in a specimen of the droppings than you'd find on my hands after handling that bird, probably by more than an order of magnitude, so the likelihood of the second bird catching it would be increased by direct contact with the poop -- it's a matter of probability, not possibility. It seems clear I'm the only one who thinks this way, though! Comes from being a scientist I suppose.

When it comes to stuff from stores, if it isn't in a sealed package and it came from a store where people can freely handle everything, I do wash it before giving it to the birds. I'm less inclined to do that when it was shipped from a warehouse in original packaging. I wouldn't buy open-stock food from such a store. And I wash my hands thoroughly when I get home from any store where the birds are out -- and change my shirt if I've handled them.

You pays your money and you takes your chances! I guess I probably wouldn't have bothered to wash the toys between cages, but I am a little surprised no one was arguing for it, because I'm one of the least cautious folks here, I think.

[kaylayuh]

The only time I would bother sterilizing toys is when there's some kind of infection that is spread by feces or contact with contaminated objects. Because I know my birds are healthy, I don't bother. If they were to get a particularly bad infection that I felt couldn't be contained by a simple washing, I'd more than likely throw contaminated toys away and replace them.

Anecdotally, my particular background is in biology, specifically human genetics with a concentration in genetic diseases. I don't feel this makes me any more nutty about sterilization. In fact, it probably makes me less so given that so many bugs have relatively short lifespans.

[entrancedbymyGCC]

I'm not sure I'd know if one my birds was sick until it was quite sick, since they are so good at hiding illness. I would guess they can be quite contagious long before anything is detected by the owner, and that would be part of the thinking behind limiting the routes of exposure.

[Michael]

Another thing to consider in a closed bird environment (stay at home bird) is what potential sources of disease are there? Once a bird has spent sufficient time with you, this pretty much rules out any contagious preexisting avian diseases.

If you visit other stores or bird owners, there exists a small risk of bringing that back but then you are equally likely to contaminate either or both birds. If it's a source of illness in the food, then once again both birds are likely to encounter it (and either be resistant to it or become ill). Some people might feed different foods (perhaps seed mix to budgie and pellets to parrot) but I think most people will feed the same foods to their parrots. I give the same veggies and table foods to both birds except where preferences differ. They are both fed the same pellets.

So for all these reasons, illness from sharing toys still seems moot even if they don't maintain direct contact.

[kaylayuh]

I'm not sure I'd know if one my birds was sick until it was quite sick, since they are so good at hiding illness. I would guess they can be quite contagious long before anything is detected by the owner, and that would be part of the thinking behind limiting the routes of exposure.

I was thinking more in the case of a vet diagnosed illness. I agree about not being able to tell that they're sick until they're extremely ill, though sometimes there can be warning signs if you're extremely in tune with your birds' normal behavior.

I'm not generally worried about bringing home an avian illness since it's very rare I go into a pet shop that houses birds or come in contact with another bird owner. My birds also don't go outside of the apartment, so it's even more unlikely they'd come in contact with anything. Plus, most of their toys and foods come from factory-direct places online and in individually sealed packages.

I'd say that unless your birds are spending time in places where they are likely to catch an avian disease, there's really no need to sterilize toys. You said they're relatively close together in other posts, correct? So I'm guessing if they're sharing the same air supply, diseases that can be airborne are likely to be shared regarless. If something like Giardia was an issue, I'd probably say that toys shouldn't be shared at all and contact between the two birds should be stopped. As long as the vet isn't telling me I need to keep the birds, their toys, cages, etc. away from eachother, I'm not too inclined to do so.

[entrancedbymyGCC]

I wasn't thinking so much of the big ticket avian-only diseases but the kinds of things a bird could pick up in its normal home environment, from food that's slightly off for example. You can definitely have two organisms receive identical exposure and only one get sick. And they are going to be just as contagious the day before you take them to the vet as the day after.

I don't think that there is any question that a disease COULD get transmitted by direct exposure to poop and mouth secretions which would otherwise not cross the air gap. The only question is if it is worth worrying about it... I'm willing to concede the latter, but not the former. However, this is getting fairly academic as arguments go.

[patdbunny]

Well, I do understand about the day to day concerns regarding bacteria and molds. I sterilize feeding and watering dishes about every two days in bleach solution. I do this as food and water dishes are higher risk as they promote a moist environment for pathogens to proliferate.

As for transfer on toys, most bacteria are going to die from dry conditions so dry matter on a toy isn't likely to be a serious source of transfer. Those that live in our environment you wouldn't be able to eliminate through sterilization as it's just going to contaminate the toy right afterwards anyway.

If one bird gets sick and not the other I would suspect some immunity compromise in the one that got sick. Kinda like spouses in the same bed, one get the flu and the other doesn't despite them both being in the same room and sharing objects.

[kaylayuh]

See, I'm more like patdbunny and am more concered about food and water dishes. I wash each in a vinegar mix every couple of days and wash them with plain soap and water every morning. I only leave fresh foods in the cage for a maximum of an hour and the fresh foods are checked for mold or other spoilage before they get them. Their dry food (seed, pellets) are bought in bulk and separated into smaller portions. What I don't use is frozen and keeps, according to the package, for up to a year. The smaller portion that I will use in a month's time is kept refrigerated and checked daily for odors and other signs of contamination.

I'm much less worried about their toys, to be honest. Organisms tend to die fairly quickly on a dry environment and I'm assuming the toys aren't being dipped in water by the birds. If they were, I'd be more concerned about mold. But as it is, my birds only dip their food in their water dishes and the toys stay dry and free from droppings.

I wouldn't allow birds to share toys if there was a new bird that hadn't been vet checked in the house. I knew my budgies were healthy when I got the GCC. And I knew the GCC was healthy because he came with a complete record from an avian vet and had gotten a check up prior to being released to me.

[entrancedbymyGCC]

I am fairly careful with food and water dishes. The fresh food dishes go in the dishwasher daily and the water dishes get rotated every few days and soap and water washed between dishwasher cycles. Of course the water gets changed at least daily. I don't change out dry food dishes as often unless they are sticky or otherwise contaminated, but they go through the dishwasher every week or so. They also have access to water bottles, those I wash and refill only every week or so, but they aren't used much, they prefer the dishes.

I do leave raw fresh food out for a few hours during the day, but I choose items that don't spoil quickly (carrots, snap peas corn, etc.) and if I feed cooked food, I take that up much sooner. Sprouts go out for an hour or two in the evening. I store the dry food at room temp, but check it often for fresh smell etc and it is in sealed containers. I usually stock only enough for a few weeks.