Mimi's Progress

[Wolf]

Again, I can't say that I know that she was physically abused or not, I do know that what she went through unhinged her pretty badly. I know that she works on getting better every day. Will she ever heal from it enough to be " normal" ? I have no idea, partly because I really don't know what would be normal as I only know her and she is all that I have to go by other than what I read about them and the stories that you all tell me about your birds.
Mimi bites my Lady several times every day, mostly when she is offered a treat or while she is practicing being allowed to touch a human. There is no way to avoid these bites that I feel would be productive for her. Right now it is just what she does in the course of learning how to touch and be touched, there is no warning, and there is nothing mean about it, it is more akin to a baby bird's beaking than anything else. She is offered a treat and she bites, then takes the treat then bites again or while trying to touch she touches or grabs a finger and plays with the finger and bites it and just continues to play as if nothing happened This repeats itself constantly. I have gotten my Lady to start walking away from her when she bites and to go back a little later for more interaction. There is just nothing more that I know to do that would not have a negative impact on her. I do think that the biting is slowly becoming less frequent and not as hard but this is going to take some time as it appears to me as if she is stuck emotionally at the beaking stage and just needs to be walked through it. I once had to do this with a 1500 pound thoroughbred stallion who had killed two of his handlers due to their abuses of him. He was a son of Seattle Slew and a grandson of Secretariat.

[Pajarita]

Are we talking real bites with sickle-shaped cuts and blood? Or are we talking real hard nips? Have you guys tried giving her treats in such a way that she can only reach the treat and no human flesh? Precie used to do that with her previous owner (one of the reasons why she had to give them up as she is on blood thinners and would bleed and bleed) but she stopped here -all I did was not give her the opportunity but then, she did not really need my physical touch as she had companions of her own so it's not quite the same situation...

[seagoatdeb]

Lots of people have written about just ignoring bites but I have never believed in it and never do it. To me its all about communication and both parties should have an okay experience and learn from each other. Your lady is gettting bitten every time, cant be much fun for her. With most damaged biting birds I gently touch their beak and say "nice kiss"in a very gentle voice, when they bite too hard. Whenever, the bites are gentle I say "nice kiss" " good bird" but when too hard I say nice "kiss only" When presented with gentleness, but teaching each time there is a bite I have had good results. Dont know if it will help in Mimis case, but thought i would offer it up, just in case.

[Wolf]

I am not a believer in suck it up and try to ignore a bite and we do let her know that bites are not acceptable, She also just started to accept a treat given to her in her dish and more recently from a hand. Yes these are bites and not nips, you know broken skin, bruised flesh and blood. We gradually esculated the response to a bite to the point where if she bites more than once that my Lady will leave her alone for a short period of time, about 10 minutes right now. Yes we let her know that bites hurt and tell her no bite. I above all do not ever try to be dishonest with my birds over anything as I can see that they know the difference and respond much better to an honest relationship. As I said, I think that there is improvement, but I think that there are several issues for her to deal with, for us it is only the one, that of biting. For her there is anger and frustration and resentment as for her entire life she was not allowed to take a treat from a human even if it were offered and she was never allowed to touch a human for any reason. This really had to mess with her mind and heart as they need the personal interaction to develop personally from a baby toward being an adult and then they need the interaction with their human or mate they are dependant on personal interactions in so many ways and being denied this basic need can only be described as cruelty in an extreme sense.
I have been able to get her to channel some of the fear, aggression, resentment and frustration into attacking a couple of toys as opposed to us. She needs to have some way of releasing these pent up emotions and just as in humans this can be a very healing thing. We understand that she has problems and things to unlearn as well as to learn and by no means do we let her think that biting is an acceptable way of dealing with these issues and we do not use negative reinforcements or any means of punishment whatsoever. I, myself went through much the same thing when I was young and have had to deal with the results of this early treatment for the majority of my life. I am very fortunate that I came to realize my problems early enough to avoid life in prison and death row in time to start changing my behaviors.

[seagoatdeb]

I have read a lot about what the bird experiences in the first 3 years sets them up for life. So a bird that is rescued that had a good first 3 years has an easier time being rehabilitated. If poor Mimi was never socialized properly, she may need to start,like you say from those testing nips of a baby, but with the beak strength of an adult. You are doing such a good job that she will progress well, it just takes time....My heart goes out to her.

[Pajarita]

She has come a long way and she will continue to improve under Wolf's care, no doubt about it! Personally, if she only bites when offered a treat, I would make sure she either cannot reach my hand (use thongs or something like that or offer something big) or that she takes her treat from somewhere else other than my hand. I firmly believe that eliminating the opportunity creates a 'new habit' that will, eventually, replace the old unacceptable one.

[Wolf]

Actually, I am working on all of these things. She started taking treats, an almond, from my Lady's hand before any other way although I have gotten her to the point of taking her treat from out of her food dish. So far this is the only treat that she will accept and only with these two ways, but it is still very early in this process as I mentioned the taking of treats on about her second time of actually taking the treat so it has not yet even been a month since she started accepting a treat.
Despite the fact that she bites she does need to learn that not only can she touch a human but also how to touch without biting. I am trying to reduce the opportunities for her to bite, but still help her to learn both not to bite and that she is allowed to touch. It is a slow process, but she will get there.

[Pajarita]

You know? I don't think that adult parrots need to be taught to be gentle. I think that they instinctually know how to do it because, otherwise, how would they mange to raise their babies without hurting them? Baby parrots are highly altricial and VERY fragile but the parents would feed them, move them, cover them, etc without a single mishap so, obviously, they can control their beak pressure at will. With parrots like poor Mimi, which have been neglected so badly in terms of physical affection, might take a while for them to realize that humans are fragile themselves and not as hardy as they would be -or even more so because, after all, we are so much larger and stronger than them- so I think that creating a deep bond and just showing them that we were hurt is what works best. But I know you are already doing this so I am sure it's just a matter of time until she is the sweetest thing ever all the time.

[liz]

When bringing in a new bird that is scared I do not react to the bites. I don't want it to learn that all it has to do is bite me to get it's way. Other than Rosie (the Pit Bull) I really have not had a biting problem. Once a bird starts loosing it's fear and starts trusting me is when I let it know that it is hurting me. Sometimes Myrtle says "owe" before I do.

Mimi is a different kind of bird. Only you can half way understand her. But you are the right person that she needs.

[Wolf]

I can tell that she does not actually intend to hurt us, I am sure that she will come around given a bit more time. As to your theory about the adults, they would have learned how to control their beak simply because no other bird is going to accept them biting them. They do have the advantage of knowing how to understand each other, but we will get there.