amazon parrots

[spikey66]

Hello fellow parrot parents. I am new to this list but believe I was a member many years ago (if this is the same forum). I am "parent" to two amazon parrots both 26 years old. My blue front named Spike is a wild caught bird who I purchased from a bird store as a young bird. My other bird, Max, is a domestically bred yellow nape who I received in a trade from a woman who did not like the personality of amazon parrots. We had purchased a cockatoo from a breeder in Florida as our second bird. However, my blue front was very jealous and my husband could not contend with the noise the cockatoo made when he wanted attention. It was a no win situation and luckily I found a cockatoo lover who was willing to make this trade. They have been happy and healthy birds for 26 years! They receive lots of love and eat a well balanced diet. I joined this group hoping someone can help me with a couple of recent problems with my blue front. He is not a plucker but recently developed a growing bald spot on his neck above his wing. This spot is totally bald down to his pink skin. I give him vitamins and powders designed for feather growth but thus far no feathers! He is eating well and seemingly healthy otherwise. For the last few days he refuses to come out of his cage and bites me when I try to get him to step up. Very unusual behavior for him. Any advise on either topic would be greatly appreciated.

[liz]

Welcome to the forum.

The only thing that comes to mind is that the other Amazon is plucking him.

[Wolf]

I don't know but I have never found any case of a bald spot on any bird that was not caused either by a medical issue ( which you need an avian vet for) or from plucking. If it is from plucking then it is either again due to a medical problem or the bird or another bird is doing the plucking. There is also some evidence that suggests that soy beans and/ or soy products may cause an allergic reaction leading to plucking in certain spots only such as over or near to where the birds crop is located or over some other internal organ which is affected by the soy. So I would first take the bird to an avian vet and rule out any medical cause for this. Then I would begin looking at the birds diet and start by removing any soy from the diet and see if this helps. The next thing that I would be looking at is changes in the birds location or environment. Changes in the birds schedule, any additions or subtractions of other beings either animal or human. What about changes in personal care products such as type of soaps or perfumes or anything of that nature.

If I were to apply what you have said to my Amazon, then I would rule out any medical cause first and then look very closely at her diet. I could not conceive of her plucking all of a sudden so if I saw evidence of plucking then I know that I would have been doing something wrong for a long time, given her personality.

Also items that are designed to promote feather growth would need to increase the level of protein in the birds body either by adding the protein or by causing the birds body to absorb proteins more efficiently, this is because the feather are made from protein. An increase in protein could result in an increase in aggression especially if the bird is somewhat hormonal.

While more information would be helpful, these are the things that come to my mind with the information given, I hope that you will find something that is useful.

[spikey66]

Thank you for your quick response. Since I can find no environmental cause for this bald spot, and I do not see plucked feathers on the floor of the cage, I will have to take him to the avian vet. Just appears to me that feathers suddenly stopped growing in that spot.
As they do not get along, my two amazons live in separate cages in the same room, so my yellow nape could not be plucking this bird's feathers.
I will investigate the soy possibility too.
Thanks again!

[Pajarita]

It could be just plain old anxiety... Parrots change as they get older and, sometimes, they do fine for years and years and, all of a sudden, they start doing something different - but the 'all of a sudden' is nothing but our perception and, in most cases, not reality -at least, not for the parrot. Do you know the genders? Is it possible that the bird is overly hormonal from too much protein and/or a human light schedule? What is their diet and light schedule? Are they clipped? If not, do they come out to fly?
I have to tell you that I've never known two amazons (I have 4 right now but had 6 until fairly recently) that did not get along and your situation is a new one to me because, in my personal experience and going by what other people who have more than one amazon post, they all get along famously. Is it possible that you tried when you first got the second one and, when you saw that it did not work out, you never tried again? Because it could be that he/she wants to be with the other one now and is depressed because it can't. I once took in two amazons that were 32 years old, they had lived all their lives in the same room but in opposite corners and were never allowed to interact because the lady said they did not get along but, as soon as I opened both cages, they both immediately gravitated toward one another. The thing is that, sometimes, people confuse jealousy of their chosen human paying attention to another bird with actual dislike of one another. But birds can be taught to 'share' their human - it takes time, work and patience but it can be done. I take out 7 birds at the same time: two amazons, two senegals, one redbelly, one lovebird and one GCC or one sun conure (the GCC comes out first and spends two hours with me, then goes back to her mate, a handicapped peachfront conure, so I can take out the sun conure) and there are no fights even though they are all flighted and can easily reach one another if they wanted to.

[spikey66]

Thank you for your reply. I have tried on numerous occasions to get them to interact and every time the yellow nape goes to attack the blue front. I do not think the blue front at this point has any desire to be with the yellow nape, however I found your experiences very interesting. Wishing I could get them together as friends but thus far no luck!
I have done considerable research into feather loss and have not found much information on the type of feather loss this bird is experiencing. As I do not see feathers in his cage I do not think he is plucking. Just a quarter sized area where no feathers grow. As a result of my research I have purchased a UVA light that I set up by his cage to provide sunlight which is not available naturally in his area. His feathers have brightened up but no feathers have grown in that spot.
He is fed a varied diet of seeds, pellets, nuts, treats and a large variety of table foods which he loves.
As far as "his" sex I think of him as a male due to his "activities" during mating season. He is very hormonal right now.
He did look to come out of his cage last night and sit on my shoulder which is our bonding time. I was glad to see that.
Neither is clipped but they do not fly. They would rather walk on the floor to get from place to place!
Thank you so much for your input. It is very much appreciated!

[liz]

I have a 30+ DYH Amazon. He was the only "only" in my home. The dogs, cats and horses all have friends. I thought Rambo would like to have a friend like him so I got BF Myrtle. I don't know by looking back if it was a good thing or not. They have a strange friendship. He would probably have done better without her but he does have an odd bond to her. He is equivalent to a 5 year old kid. She on the other hand is like a 2 year old always getting in trouble and tormenting her friend the 5 year old. They act like siblings of that age with the younger tormenting the older when she gets board but they still have a bond that they cannot be separated now. They can go from enjoying and talking about a meal I gave them (yummy noises) to a ball of green feathers rolling and screaming as they roll across the floor. The only way I can break up the ball of feathers is to grab both sides of the ball and hope each hand has it's own bird. Myrtle can fly but I don't think that Rambo ever learned. He is a pedestrian.
I wish you luck with your Amazons. Since each little bird has a big personality you never know what you get until you get it.

[Wolf]

It is actually not all that uncommon for a parrot to eat the feathers that it is plucking out, which leads me to believe that in certain cases that the cause for the plucking is dietary. I could be that they have a food allergy, there could be a nutritional deficiency which could be caused by either too much of a given vitamin/ mineral or by to little of one of them causing an imbalance in the vitamin/ mineral and the result is that one or more vitamin/ mineral is interfering with the proper absorption of another vitamin/ mineral. If this is the case then very often the spot that they are plucking will be very close to the internal organ(s) affected the most.

Again this is just my thoughts and is based mostly on research that I have done and am continuing to do concerning feather plucking. I have one bird that came to me plucked naked and with enough follicle damage that she will never regrow her feathers and another bird that I though I had her plucking under control until this year she resumed her plucking.

[Pajarita]

Well, for one thing, it seems to me that their diet is way too high in protein. I don't know if you are aware of this but amazons only require 17% protein when they are breeding, the rest of the time, it should be much lower and, as our birds don't breed, it should be lower all the time although, if you keep them at a strict solar schedule, you can increase it a bit during breeding season so as to reinforce the circannual cycles. And the one-on-one at night is a no-no, they need to be on a solar light schedule so, once the sun begins to set, it's beddy-bye time for them. The thing is that keeping them at a human light schedule and feeding them too much protein makes them overly hormonal and that means a screwed up endocrine system (which governs everything in the body: molt, appetite, sleep, immune system, sexual hormone production, etc).

Just two more comments. I have found that feathers on the head take much longer to be replaced than anywhere else on the body. I have a male Senegal whose head got plucked by a now deceased mate and, although it has been years, he still has a bald spot that has not gotten 'filled up'.

Also, I don't know exactly what you mean by 'tried to get them to interact' but what I do is open the cages doors, walk away and, pretending that I am not paying attention, watch them carefully for any sign of aggression and, when it happens, scold the aggressor and move him away from the other one. Three strikes will get a 5 minute time-out in the cage. The other thing is timing because the best time to do this is at noon when they normally rest and are much calmer. It cannot be done during one-on-one time because they never want to share. And it never works if the birds are overly hormonal because there is no way you will convince them to accept an 'enemy' as a 'friend' if all they want is your exclusive attention.

Oh, and another thing, please do NOT use UV light! It's very dangerous to birds! What you need is a good quality full spectrum (CRI 94+ Ktemp closer to 5000 than 5500).

[spikey66]

Made a mistake when mentioning the light. It is a full spectrum light that I bought from a bird supply catalogue. Thank you all very much for your input. I will be making some changes thanks to your advice and be hoping for the best! So glad I re-discovered this board!