Do you believe in God?

[bosad44]

hello everyone I thought it would be interesting to know what are others believes concerning god. so what are your believes and for what reasons you are convinced of your belief?

for me I'm a muslim, when I was younger I was simply a muslim because that's how I've been raised but since I started school I've been learning more about this religion through school and many of the things we learned are for me a solid evidence that god exist and Islam is true.

you are free to ask away whatever you want about my religion
Looking forward to hear from others

[liz]

There are 2 sides of Islam.

[Pajarita]

I don't like to talk about religion because people always think they are right about theirs when, in reality, there is no way they can have any certainty on anything - a sad fact that precludes having any logical argument about the subject.

But there are two sides to any religion, Liz - a good one and an evil one. Although maybe not so much to Buddhism as the whole premise is non-violence, acceptance and rebirth but certainly for any other religion, especially the monotheistic ones. Sheesh, just look at the TERRIBLE things that have been done and are still being done in the name of religion! (the Crusades, the Inquisition, the Salem witch burnings, slavery, the genocide of indigenous people, etc). I just read an article about a Southern preacher threatening -from the pulpit!- to cut somebody with a knife to show support for another preacher who bought his wife a $200,000 SUV!

The problem with religion is that it's one of the most powerful tools (if not the most powerful!) for evil and bad people have caught on to that fact as well as to the fact that people would believe pretty much anything they are told without questioning -mostly because part of being a good follower IS not to question. All religions are bad and all religions are good - it all depends on where you are standing.

[bosad44]

There are 2 sides of Islam.

What do you mean by 2 sides of islam?

Also by the way, if I may ask, what are your beliefs?

[bosad44]

I don't like to talk about religion because people always think they are right about theirs when, in reality, there is no way they can have any certainty on anything - a sad fact that precludes having any logical argument about the subject.

But there are two sides to any religion, Liz - a good one and an evil one. Although maybe not so much to Buddhism as the whole premise is non-violence, acceptance and rebirth but certainly for any other religion, especially the monotheistic ones. Sheesh, just look at the TERRIBLE things that have been done and are still being done in the name of religion! (the Crusades, the Inquisition, the Salem witch burnings, slavery, the genocide of indigenous people, etc). I just read an article about a Southern preacher threatening -from the pulpit!- to cut somebody with a knife to show support for another preacher who bought his wife a $200,000 SUV!

The problem with religion is that it's one of the most powerful tools (if not the most powerful!) for evil and bad people have caught on to that fact as well as to the fact that people would believe pretty much anything they are told without questioning -mostly because part of being a good follower IS not to question. All religions are bad and all religions are good - it all depends on where you are standing.

Thank you for your response. I think the nature of belief is once you accept something to be true you readily reject anything that contradicts or goes against it, that’s why it’s illogical to say two religions are true. On your second point I agree with you to some extent but not having the proof to prove anything doesn’t necessarily mean that what we believe in is not true. For example, you cannot neither prove or disapprove the existence of god. However, you can have strong reasons/evidences to support your belief whatever your belief is, and I’d say everything around us is a strong evidence that God exists, and I’d also say Islam has those kinds of strong evidences that can strongly support its claims.

I disagree with you on that religion has two sides, a good side and a bad side. Of course, it depends on how you look at “religion”, but I believe religions has only one side as most if not all religions do not preach hate. Things that are done by particular groups are entitled to them not to the religion or its teachings. Bad or evil people would always be there whether there’s religions or not, they only preform their acts on the name of religion to have some kind of an excuse.

I do agree with you on that many people take/took advantage of the religion to control people and manipulated the religion’s teaching to suit their motives but that does not apply to all people who believe in religion and certainly does not apply to all religions. You said “-mostly because part of being a good follower IS not to question.” I’d say that’s not entirely true, for Islam at least, as it not only doesn’t ask people to blindly believe in it, it also challenges them and their intellect to think and reflect logically about the existence of god and the authenticity of its revelations. Also, as I’ve already mentioned earlier, most religions does not promote violence or hate, it is people who choose to do the bad and evil deeds.

by the way, I would still like to know your belief if possible

[Pajarita]

Well, no, the ONLY reason you or anybody has to believe in God is faith. There is no evidence that God exists. None, zero, zilch. Everything around us does NOT, in any way, prove that God exists. There are books (Bible, Torah, Quran, Vestas, etc) written by people who believed in God but that only proves that they, the writers of the books, believed and not that God actually exists. Besides, those books were written thousands of years ago when mankind thought that anything they could not explain was supernatural. Again, the only thing you have to go on when it comes to God is faith which is not provable in any way. One could say that faith is a feeling but then, there are other feelings -like hate, anger, fear, love, etc- and those are provable because there are measurable physical manifestations of them: pupil size, body temperature, blood pressure, hormonal production, etc) but not when it comes to faith. People who have faith in God are exactly the same, physically speaking, as people who don't. As to the statement that is illogical to say that two different religions are both true... I beg to differ, in reality, saying that any one religion is the true one is illogical because saying that anything is true implies being able to prove it and you can't.

I am an atheist. I was born and raised Catholic. I went to a nun school all my childhood and youth all the way up to graduation (and no, I did not hate the nuns, they were wonderful and I loved them to pieces!). But I always had doubts and questions the Catholic religion could not answer so I started going to a Protestant denomination (the Church of Christ). And they could not answer them either. Now, as one of my biggest problems was the huge unfairness of the 'one life, one chance to go to heaven' thing (because we all know now that we are a product of nature and nurture both so, obviously, people who had been born to terrible situations did not have the advantage of being able to live a good Christian, Muslim or whatever life as other -more privileged- people had) I started researching Eastern religions because the idea of having more than one chance (reincarnation) was so much more fair... but, unfortunately, that did not work out mathematically so that was the end of that. And, after many years of questioning, researching, studying, analyzing, etc. I realized that I did not believe in God. I believe that we have one life and that we should all try to improve ourselves and make this life count so, when we die, we leave the world a better place than we found it. And I try very hard to do this.

But let's leave this argument as it is: you believe in God and I don't, so let's just agree to disagree because this is a bird site and not a religious forum.

[bosad44]

Well, no, the ONLY reason you or anybody has to believe in God is faith. There is no evidence that God exists. None, zero, zilch. Everything around us does NOT, in any way, prove that God exists. There are books (Bible, Torah, Quran, Vestas, etc) written by people who believed in God but that only proves that they, the writers of the books, believed and not that God actually exists. Besides, those books were written thousands of years ago when mankind thought that anything they could not explain was supernatural. Again, the only thing you have to go on when it comes to God is faith which is not provable in any way. One could say that faith is a feeling but then, there are other feelings -like hate, anger, fear, love, etc- and those are provable because there are measurable physical manifestations of them: pupil size, body temperature, blood pressure, hormonal production, etc) but not when it comes to faith. People who have faith in God are exactly the same, physically speaking, as people who don't. As to the statement that is illogical to say that two different religions are both true... I beg to differ, in reality, saying that any one religion is the true one is illogical because saying that anything is true implies being able to prove it and you can't.

I am an atheist. I was born and raised Catholic. I went to a nun school all my childhood and youth all the way up to graduation (and no, I did not hate the nuns, they were wonderful and I loved them to pieces!). But I always had doubts and questions the Catholic religion could not answer so I started going to a Protestant denomination (the Church of Christ). And they could not answer them either. Now, as one of my biggest problems was the huge unfairness of the 'one life, one chance to go to heaven' thing (because we all know now that we are a product of nature and nurture both so, obviously, people who had been born to terrible situations did not have the advantage of being able to live a good Christian, Muslim or whatever life as other -more privileged- people had) I started researching Eastern religions because the idea of having more than one chance (reincarnation) was so much more fair... but, unfortunately, that did not work out mathematically so that was the end of that. And, after many years of questioning, researching, studying, analyzing, etc. I realized that I did not believe in God. I believe that we have one life and that we should all try to improve ourselves and make this life count so, when we die, we leave the world a better place than we found it. And I try very hard to do this.

But let's leave this argument as it is: you believe in God and I don't, so let's just agree to disagree because this is a bird site and not a religious forum.

(Or were they created out of naught? Or are they the creators?) – Quran 52:35.

I don’t know how much you actually know about Islam or if you have looked into the Quran, so if you have not, I’d encourage you and everyone else, that you do so before making a final judgement about it.

As I’ve previously said, to believe in something, you do not need a proof to believe in it. However, to believe in something you need reasons to support that belief. So no, I’d say to believe in religion doesn’t always mean there’s no reason but faith. Having said that now if you’d say that I have no proof to prove that God exists, and if you would claim God doesn’t exist, I can say the same too, you have no proof to prove to me that God doesn’t exist. I don’t know about you, but for me, I might not have a “proof”, but I do have reasons that are backed up by strong evidence (again not “proof” but evidence) that God really exists and Islam is the true religion of god. This verse from the Quran that I mentioned above is only one of many verses that provokes our intellect to think and ponder about our existence. Have we come out of nothing? All the finely designed creatures, stars, planets and the whole universe came from nothing?

You said, “saying that anything is true implies being able to prove it and you can't.” are you sure about that? Do you really have a solid absolute proof for everything you believe in? As I mentioned before you called yourself an atheist which means you believe for sure that God doesn’t exist, but I think you can’t really prove that can you? Yes, you can have strong reasons or evidence to support that claim but you can’t prove to me 100% that there’s nothing out there that created everything and that’s just one example I can give to you.

I admire you for being a truth seeker and not a blind follower, that you used your logic and reason, many people should learn from your example. I know that would be a bold statement of me to make and I could be wrong, but I’m sure if you looked into it with an open mind and no predisposition, you’d find the answers of the questions you had before in Islam, or at least things would make more sense to you. I do not make those claims out of nothing, I’m only able to because Quran is that strong. After all we Muslims believe the Author of it is God himself and Quran itself is a miracle because it’s a book that cannot be produced by humans because of many reasons. I’d like to discuss further with you, but since you do not want to continue this discussion, I’ll leave it with this.

(Will they not then ponder on the Qur'an? If it had been from other than Allah they would have found therein much incongruity.) Quran- 4:82

[Pajarita]

Like I said, let's agree to disagree. If believing in God and thinking that Islam is the only true religion and that you are one of the 'chosen' makes you happy, it's great! I am happy that you are happy.

[bosad44]

Like I said, let's agree to disagree. If believing in God and thinking that Islam is the only true religion and that you are one of the 'chosen' makes you happy, it's great! I am happy that you are happy.

What do you mean by "one of the chosen"? also it is not just about me thinking islam is the only true religion, but no other religion that exists today can be reconciled with islamic beliefs and teachings. Apart from that, God clearly says in the Quran that the only religion in the sight of God is islam (submitting to God). So it's not like I have anything against other people's beliefs or anything, it is simply the nature of my belief...

I was hoping that we could have a logical discussion, but unfortunately it seems like this topic is too sensitive to you and your emotions took over or something? . regardless of that I thank you for this short discussion because even if you won't consider what I said to possibly be true perhaps other viewers might take it into consideration and benefit from it.

just a piece of advice, I hope you would at least look into Quran and islam if you haven't. because I believe It's the strongest piece of evidence I could provide to support my case. As Quran contains many prophecies and knowledge of things that were not possible to be known 1400 years ago. Let alone it being composed and structured in a unique way and it having a strong eloquent language (Arabic) that cannot be replicated by humans or even the Arabs themselves.

(And if ye are in doubt concerning that which We reveal unto Our slave (Muhammad), then produce a surah of the like thereof, and call your witness beside Allah if ye are truthful.) - Quran 2:23

A challenge that stood for 1400 years that not even the Arabs who opposed Islam at that time could beat. (A "surah" means chapter, and the shortest chapter in the Quran consists of three verses only)

[Pajarita]

You really do have a problem with letting go, don't you? My feelings are not in question and, if you knew me, you would know that I have the thickest skin ever so, no, it's not a matter of me being overly sensitive about the subject or about me not being able to have an argument (not that it could be logical if it's about God but anyway..), I am the QUEEN of debates! There are two reasons and two reasons alone why I don't want to continue the argument:
1) you can't argue with anybody who claims that they have evidence that God exists (the whole premise is not only false but too ridiculous as there is not and never has been any evidence (as in body of facts or provable information - it comes from the latin 'videre' which means to see) whatsoever of God's existence - and that's why all religions are based on something as unprovable as 'faith' which is defined as 'unable to be demonstrated by evidence or argument as true or existing'. So, as you can see, you can't use both 'faith' and 'evidence' for the same thing because it's either one or the other - you either 'see' the proof (evidence) or you don't, in which case, you need 'faith'.
2) this is a BIRD forum, not a religion one. If you want to have a debate on anything related to birds, you are more than welcome to state your position and we will take it from there.