Kili Making Bubbling Sound, Should I be alarmed?

[pchela]

Even though you don't reinforce her making this noise, she may still be parroting the clicker noise. After all, she hears it quite often and parrots do mimic things they hear a lot. I'm not saying that's what this is, but I wouldn't discount it as a possibility. Especially if she gets a treat when she hears the clicker.

[Michael]

She gets a treat for hearing the clicker, not for making it. Also she does it somewhat uncontrollably. I can grab her, turn her upside down, roll her around, etc and she'll keep doing it. Also she shakes at the production of the sound each time. When a parrot is vocalizing, one distraction and it stops doing it. And she never makes clicker sound when she is really vocalizing and doing her repertoire.

[pchela]

I understand that she gets the treat after hearing the clicker but she could still be mimicking the clicking sound, especially since she associates it with something good if you see what I mean. In any case, it does not sound like that's what is going on. It is odd that she will continue to make the sound even when you are grabbing her or turning her upside down. Very interesting. I'd like to know what is going on with Miss Kili. All parrots have their little quirks. I wonder if this is one of Kili's?

[alight15]

She gets a treat for hearing the clicker, not for making it. Also she does it somewhat uncontrollably. I can grab her, turn her upside down, roll her around, etc and she'll keep doing it. Also she shakes at the production of the sound each time. When a parrot is vocalizing, one distraction and it stops doing it. And she never makes clicker sound when she is really vocalizing and doing her repertoire.

um..this is just a theory..I dont know about the actually noise...but just a non-concern inducing
question..on what's causing it

Does she do this before or after she eats something from you..
Did you ever give her something juicy to eat after and did it stop if you do(even for a little)?



and I mean really juicy i guess..like a apple or pear or orange(just to give an idea on what i mean by "juicy")

[Michael]

I dunno what it has to do with juicy but I don't give her anything to eat before or after. She'll just land some place near or on me and start doing this. There is no result or consequence. It just happens.

[Mona]

HI Michael:

The "click" means something to Kili. By that, she has learned that the "clicker" has meaning. She sees it differently than you or I do and it's probably impossible to understand exactly what it "means" to her...

What you describe, it almost seems that she is expressing "anxiety" through the click. Is that a possibility?

What happens when she hears a click? She gets food and attention. You have taught her that what precedes a "click" is something she likes or wants. Parrots are smart enough to figure out if it works for one, it might work for another. She might be wanting attention or food and replicating the "click" because in the past, a "click" worked for food and attention. She might also associate attention and food with comfort, so she might be using the click to try and get "comfort"

Parrots use noise like language. They don't think like we do but they do think. Normally, they would learn appropriate language from a flock. You and Kathleen are her flock so she is learning from you, just like she would learn from a flock.

I gotta run....but you can let me know what you think about that. Think about it the same way, you might consider screaming. When a parrot screams, we usually figure out they want something right? Well....how did they learn to scream in the first place?

Clicking is like a scream.....You don't have people "screaming" in your house but you do have the click....and it definitely means something to Kili.

In her mind, she is trying to work with that "meaning".....

I don't have time to write this any clearer.....but this is probably her "language"....

Thx

Mona

[Michael]

Except that even if I DO give her attention when she is like this, she just keeps going. She doesn't stop once her "desire" (unless it is mating) is satisfied. If she is in one of these clicky spells, she'll go on for a while and it doesn't matter what I do cause she will keep doing it. Whether I grab her or cue tricks, she keeps doing it. It's almost uncontrollable it seems. But if she is startled or something REALLY novel is going on, then she'll stop.

[Mona]

So...that means that what you assume is causing it, may not be what is causing it.

The reason why behaviorial analysis works is because you work with observable phenomena to develop a hypothesis; however, not every thing is observable. You can't observe what is going on inside the bird except by trial and error. If what you are doing is NOT solving the behavior, then you have to assume you are making a wrong hypothesis and you have to look further.

Just because you can't observe what is going on inside the bird....doesn't mean something isn't going on inside the bird. Believe me, a lot goes on inside these birds! They have emotions, wants and needs.....some the same and some are different than ours.

The two things that might help is to try to understand Kili's perspective as much as possible and observe as much as you can.

To illustrate how language can work: This weekend, Bailey was hurt in the aviary. Kiri jumped on him and bit his beak. It wasn't any thing serious but because it was close to his nares, I am sure that it hurt. I brought him back in the house. He sat in is cage and he screamed and screamed and screamed. Why did he scream?

I don't know why he screamed. I think he probably had a physical sensation of pain so I just sat down and talked directly to him using a soothing voice. I felt bad that he was hurt. It wasn't his fault and there wasn't any thing I could really do about it....however, there was that screaming. It was a noise, a language. I imagine there were many things at play that were the impetus to the screaming: 1) pain 2) He wanted attention 3) He wanted comfort 4) There wasn't any thing for him to do but scream in that situation.....

Any way, I sat down and talked to him in a calm, soothing voice for about 20 minutes and he quit screaming. He actually perked up and was fine.

Bailey's screaming is just language. Bailey CAN talk (I hear him say his name, etc. quite a bit) and he has quite a few other noises that he makes to convey different things....Some of the noises are ambient sounds that happen in the environment like mimicing plate stacking means dinner is coming....or mimicking the door opening means that we are home and the birds get to come out soon....and some is actual language....but it all means something to the birds. It may not mean what we think it should mean or expect it to mean because birds don't think like us....but it has some sort of meaning from their perspective and from how they see the world.

I don't know why Kili is making the clicking sound but when I saw the movie, it really did look like the clicker. I don't know why she is making the clicking sound except that it has probably supplanted whatever other sound she would normally be making. Bailey makes a whining sound when he wants attention. He will sit and whine and whine while Doug scratches his head. Phinney TAG talks quite a bit. She has a variable vocalbulary so she says different things in different contexts....Babylon also speaks in context and her vocalbulary is varied but more important than the actual words is that she varies the tone of her voice so I always know her emotions....

Expressions are complex things. Some birds mimic just because it's fun....like Kili used to mimic that bird outside. It's hard, maybe even impossible to know why she is doing it....

It's so close to the sound of your clicker...and that clicker has so much meaning for her....I think it would be the clicker.....unless you have something else in the house that sounds like that...

Also, for Poicephalus, the clicking sound really does mean something. It's a friendly sound....

Who knows? Maybe she's trying to manipulate you. Maybe she's trying to use the clicking noise to influence YOUR behavior. You give her a seed, CLICK....GOOD MICHAEL. You give her attention...CLICK....Good Michael....Maybe it's her attempt to manipulate you.....

That's all I can guess.......Gotta go...Take care.

The birds are our teachers with this stuff. We just have to pay attention.

Mona

[Michael]

She never does it as a one time sound though. Never. Whenever it happens it's like a series of timed hiccups (as you see in video). I'd believe you that it was just clicker imitation or communication. She makes other vocalizations at variable intervals. But this happens on a fixed interval and she shakes every time she makes it which may or may not be noticeable in video. Why would she keep doing it if she has my attention? BTW I have never heard her doing this when she wasn't near me. She does it on my shoulder or if she is sitting near me. I'll sometimes toss her away if she does this to try to discourage it and she will often stop doing it if she isn't near me but start doing it again if she comes to me again.

I try to be completely indifferent to her when she makes the sound. I won't even look at her. But if I do look at her or give her attention she doesn't stop. Also this rarely happens at the start of a training session (when she is hungriest) but usually happens toward the end or after training.

[Mona]

I have to look at the video again....

I do know that my birds all go click, click, click when they are just being friendly.....

Jack makes a "Meoowwwww" noise when I walk in the house. I used to think he was imitating a cat until one day, I realized it was the sound of the door opening when we came in the house.

Is there any thing like that going on at your house? Does your computer make a noise like that? Typing?????

Just some thoughts.....

Thx

Mona