Pajarita wrote:So, although man would work for more reasons than just monetary reward and some individuals would learn just for the pleasure of it, I don't think that parrots learn because the learning itself brings them pleasure.
Michael wrote:Pajarita wrote:So, although man would work for more reasons than just monetary reward and some individuals would learn just for the pleasure of it, I don't think that parrots learn because the learning itself brings them pleasure.
That's cause you haven't met Kili.
Michael wrote:Pajarita wrote:So, although man would work for more reasons than just monetary reward and some individuals would learn just for the pleasure of it, I don't think that parrots learn because the learning itself brings them pleasure.
That's cause you haven't met Kili.
Pajarita wrote:But the question would be: if your parrot always got a bowl full of treats every single time he is asked to do a trick or every time he is given a foraging toy, would it still prefer to work for one instead of just taking one from the bowl? Mine would do pretty much anything I ask of them and I never give them a treat as a reward -granted that I don't ask them to do any tricks but just things that are necessary for sharing our living environment and not in any formal frame but just as they happen along so the fact that there is no actual structure or anticipation of a reward must make a difference. I mean, if a parrot -say, Kili- was taught from an early age that a trick means a treat and that no treat would be forthcoming regularly otherwise, this would create a conditioned response that would last a lifetime - while a parrot that never goes through this type of training and gets treats all the time just because would not have this same condition response - right?
My birds get a treat every single afternoon right before I go upstairs with my tea (they also get one if I happen to make something for them like birdy cookies or if I have company, it's a holiday, etc). The afternoon treat doesn't happen always at the same time and it doesn't even happen every single afternoon because if I am running an errand, they don't get it but they know that when I put my kettle on, a treat is coming so they anticipate it based on my actions creating thus, another sort of conditioned response. The same could be said of Gaugan getting a foraging toy, she knows that there is a treat inside because every time she gets the foraging toy, that is what she finds in it.
My point is that we can confuse an eager response to a specific stimulus as a conscious willingness on part of the parrot when, in reality, it's something we taught it same as Pavlov taught his dogs to expect food whenever they heard the bell ringing.
Pajarita wrote:But the question would be: if your parrot always got a bowl full of treats every single time he is asked to do a trick or every time he is given a foraging toy, would it still prefer to work for one instead of just taking one from the bowl? Mine would do pretty much anything I ask of them and I never give them a treat as a reward -granted that I don't ask them to do any tricks but just things that are necessary for sharing our living environment and not in any formal frame but just as they happen along so the fact that there is no actual structure or anticipation of a reward must make a difference. I mean, if a parrot -say, Kili- was taught from an early age that a trick means a treat and that no treat would be forthcoming regularly otherwise, this would create a conditioned response that would last a lifetime - while a parrot that never goes through this type of training and gets treats all the time just because would not have this same condition response - right?
My birds get a treat every single afternoon right before I go upstairs with my tea (they also get one if I happen to make something for them like birdy cookies or if I have company, it's a holiday, etc). The afternoon treat doesn't happen always at the same time and it doesn't even happen every single afternoon because if I am running an errand, they don't get it but they know that when I put my kettle on, a treat is coming so they anticipate it based on my actions creating thus, another sort of conditioned response. The same could be said of Gaugan getting a foraging toy, she knows that there is a treat inside because every time she gets the foraging toy, that is what she finds in it.
My point is that we can confuse an eager response to a specific stimulus as a conscious willingness on part of the parrot when, in reality, it's something we taught it same as Pavlov taught his dogs to expect food whenever they heard the bell ringing.
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